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Post by babaracus on Apr 4, 2007 21:52:40 GMT
Fitted 2 x new coils and ngk iridiums today, havn't driven her yet but defo an improvement, started first time with no problems didn't even have to coax it with throttle!! idled so much smoother too! ;D Will give some feedback on road test in the morning!!  |
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Post by babaracus on Apr 9, 2007 20:02:03 GMT
Well after the road tests, I am still a bit miffed,
Starts better and idles better defo, as you would expect from £90 of ignition components.
Hesitation still there, or should I say misfire.
The root of the problem is this, I will try and be precise as poss to make diagnosis easier.
When cold although the slight miss is there and doesn't allow the car to accelerate like it should it gets far worse after 20 mins of driving or basically when fully warm.
If travelling on part throttle at any given rev after it is fully hot the rev counter will bounce from 0 to whatever revs doing, like someone is turning the key off on the ignition, then restarting over and over.
When it does this and stalls aka when the revs of the engine arn't high enough to restart (when you can't plant it coz u r in traffic going slowly) from the misfire (i would guess this is what it is) the car will not restart.
You then leave the car for 10-20 mins and it starts first time, it then will drive ok (but still with slight miss/hesitation) until its fully warm again (prob no more than 5 mins later on the restarted engine). It will then start bouncing up and down.
Can I emphasise if the engine is doing this and you then are fortunate enough to find a fast piece of road, Where you can drive her fast it will go. It will then return inTown/driving slowly.
The only way to avoid this major miss is to plant your foot to the floor, (whenever the car is on full throttle this goes away and it pulls all be it still with slight miss that its always had.
This seems far too major to be the icv?
Fuel consumption is fine, until I have to plant it all the time to stop it from missing, on a day when the car runs fine it uses no more fuel than it should imo.
When I removed the old spark plugs on one the gap was tiny (think it was no/3 cylinder) the others were about right.
The new iridiums/coils have only aided the ability to start and in some cases general running although the miss be it large or small is still there?
This needs to be sorted once and for all, if its not sorted by end of June when car is going to be resprayed, it will be sold and the repsray not taking place as I don't see the aim in spending around £1500 to sort the paint out if its never going to run properly.
If no one in the 'custom' world can help me, I will take it to local fiat specialist, if they can't sort it, will be going.
Sorry to talk quite harsh, but this is the reality, I adore this car and in my own way know its not the cars fault as it was my stupid idea to have the engine convo. Trouble is i'm now on the end of a very long tether.
The car was last running 100% in september last year before the conversion. This is now 7.5 months ago.
Please HELP!!!
Just for reference,
have changed throttle position sensor/plugs/leads/coils x 2/lambda sensor/injector flush/ still no major breathrough apart from a smoother start/drive which I would expect.
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Post by lowtechguy on Apr 10, 2007 10:07:02 GMT
jumping from 0-whatever your doing?
I recently heard from a fiat tech that the ignition switch is sometimes a problem however what you describe sounds electrical now.
the ICV could get stuck on open or close and potentially cut the revs or raise them (which did sound like your problem before however to what extreme I dont know).
I would hazzard a guess at that (ICV still) £10 or so, or the ignition switch if the engine is cutting out altogether and coming back on again.
To be fair james this is a MAJOR conversion so bound to have some teething problems but once sorted it will be so special it would be worth it.
Don't give up hope, you knew it wouldnt be plain sailing from the start, dont give up!
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Post by babaracus on Apr 10, 2007 13:18:13 GMT
Thanks for reply,
Sorry when I say jumping to whatever, i mean jumping between the revs you are doing to 0. For example if I am sat on part throttle at 3750rpm, the rev counter will bounce up and down between 0 and 3750 (nearly like someone tampering with the keys), I would say its a really bad misfire though as if you can get your foot to max throttle it clears.
I would change the icv myslef but am unsure of the part number etc i would need as its a push in type valve. Would a photo help, or should the part number be on the icv itself?
I have to clear this problem so I can fit the sports cat as i don't wish to kill it and chuck the money down the drain.
I am not giving up but, all be it come the summer I need something reliable. I just basically want to get this problem cleared asap! Then everyones a winner!
If I had the time and the knowlege i'd take it to bits myself but i'm relying on others with most things and have no time due to uni work atm. come mid may should be in a better position with help from others.
Peter is meant to be doing some research for me, i may give him a call now actually.
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Post by lowtechguy on Apr 10, 2007 13:55:14 GMT
that sounds like a short, no wires touching the exhaust or dodgy stereo connections on the car?
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Post by babaracus on Apr 10, 2007 14:10:09 GMT
Only one I could think which is touching exhaust is the lambda sensor wiring slightly. Stereo is working fine and i don't have any hi tech stereo power feeds running off the battery direct or anything like that just head unit and 4 speakers.
To be honest it needs to be taken to bits but I just don't have time and need a more precise explanation. Well as much as poss anyway.
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Post by lowtechguy on Apr 10, 2007 14:39:17 GMT
Would love to help but only so much you can do over the net.
Just trying to point you in the right direction, what you decribe are alot of problems with not 1 common fix, the coil packs, plugs and tps are an excellent start and rule out alot, the sudden cutting out does sound electrical I had that when I had the alternator wire melting on the exhaust and it was randomly shorting and actually cut out while I was over taking at 110mph in the fast lane!!
the icv will sort out the hesitiation to a degree but also the mapping needs to be re done as the car is only mapped according to the broken parts, as soon as you fix the hardware the software needs to be adjusted again.
Like I said this is a massive conversion especially for keeping the stock ecu, so bare with peter while he does what he does and have patentice with the car, personally mine was off road for around 6 months and is still not 100% perfect however I am over the moon with handling and acceleration right now, top end is bad only because the mapping isnt done...but soon will be...however after all my work your car will be quicker still so cut it some slack and work methodically through the problems and eventually it would be better than a punto mk1 16v!
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Post by babaracus on Apr 10, 2007 16:43:24 GMT
Peter seems to think that it doing it at 4k rpm is too high up the rev range for the ICV, but it may help. Hopefully it will be going on a holiday to london for a few days in the next few weeks, work permitting!
My thought is Crank sensor as this is adjacent to the oil pressure light switch (which is the only other thing to play up), i think maybe the heat is affecting the crank and oil pressure light switch, as it is cable tied to the lower coolant bottle hose and perhaps the heat is affecting the wiresas it gets hot??
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Post by lowtechguy on Apr 11, 2007 8:38:30 GMT
Could be a dodgy earth? I know Alex forgot to bolt the earth that connects just behind the coil packs are on the 8v models. Maybe something similar on the 16v version? He was getting the code light flash up. When you plant the throttle the engine may be rocking and getting a good earth like Alex? Long shot but worth a try... If its not that its the one on the gearbox etc. Something silly anyway however the ICV I think will also help and at £15 you could spend it on worser things. |
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Post by babaracus on Apr 12, 2007 9:04:14 GMT
Thank you for all your input it really is very helpful.
I will check some earthing points tonight, perhaps, where abouts is the gearbox earth located does anybody know?
I will get Peter to order me an ICV valve when I speak to him this evening.
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Post by babaracus on Apr 12, 2007 9:06:16 GMT
Just a quick note, I am finding the car has always hesitated but it now doing its rev counter jumping antics and cutting out only when fully warm, so will also be looking for potential wires that could be having heat problems.
What kind fo temps are the wires good for??
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Post by lowtechguy on Apr 12, 2007 9:33:45 GMT
wires are only a problem if the shield has melted and they short on a bit of metal.
Lambda wiring, earth strap on the throttle body from the injector rail, from the coil packs on the head and the gearbox one which transfers all this to the chasis/battery. (this is located near the slave cylinder, once you look you wont miss it.
Thinking about it the injector rail earth is now in the wrong position so it could be that.
All points need to be clean and solid (not dirty and loose)
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Post by hudsonhenry on Apr 12, 2007 10:04:21 GMT
As I understand it you are running the 16 valve on an 1108 spi ecu, is this a proven conversion? Would it be worth trying a 16v ECU?
Just a thought but I'm a die hard carb fan, its much easier to work out.
How about a pair of webbers and a dissy?
Nigel
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Post by lowtechguy on Apr 12, 2007 10:21:34 GMT
As I understand it you are running the 16 valve on an 1108 spi ecu, is this a proven conversion? Would it be worth trying a 16v ECU? Just a thought but I'm a die hard carb fan, its much easier to work out. How about a pair of webbers and a dissy? Nigel He has the 1.1 mpi ECU like in my punto. The mk1 16v wiring is almost identical except for the cam positioning sensor which could be an issue, the 16v reads only the inlet the 8v reads 1 cam which is inlet and exhaust so the reference point/ circumferance of the cam maybe too different. Currently the car is without cat which will be losing him power (I lost 10bhp from standard when I decatted and disconnected the second lambda like he has). Carbs would be an idea however mpg would be lower, power would be down as you tune for low or high rpm but then ecu can map for both. Also the 8v spi engine has a inlet manifold that uses a carb which is the same bolt pattern but the 16v has always run mpi injection (so no wet manifolds available). His problem I am certain is something simple but not working on the car myself its only guess work. I suppose carb per cylinder would be good however you open a can of worms on the inlet manifold. I think the route he has chosen is good but he needs to spend time on niggley bits as the hard part is done already. |
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Post by babaracus on Apr 12, 2007 14:06:54 GMT
Yes I agree, one big question, would the wrong cam sensor cause bad running? or does it simply let the ecu know its in the right position and doesn't effect running? If so this could be it, but I was always under the assumption it woudn't effect the running.
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